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Can somebody tell me how is Systema different from the rest of martial arts in terms of movement, say delivering a punch or countering one. I can’t view Systema videos on my granny computer. I have training in Tae Kwon Do, Wing Chun and Aikido.
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Mon, March 6, 2006 - 1:09 PMYou'll find it most similar to Aikido, less so to Wing Chun, and least so to Tae Kwon Do.
I'd say the emphasis on free, natural movement, and lack of a concept of "techniques", is what you'll find most different about Systema. Depending on how you trained, the amount of contact could be weird -- Systema generally works full contact at low intensities rather than false contact at high intensities.
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"Like Aikido???"
Sat, March 11, 2006 - 3:07 AMNo, not really. Most similar of the three things you listed.
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Sat, March 11, 2006 - 2:06 AMwww.russianmartialart.com/catal...v1.wmv
The punch looks awfully weird even from a Wing Chun stand point. No hip movement, not much shoulder movement. The arm is always bent, only hook punches. The punch uses a short circular path and probably some body unity to generate impact power.
The punch probably doesn’t have much power. Am I correct? -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Sat, March 11, 2006 - 3:15 AM"The punch looks awfully weird even from a Wing Chun stand point."
Almost every punch looks weird from a Wing Chun standpoint...
As to power, it depends a lot on who's doing the hitting. The instructors and such tend to have extremely heavy hands.
Most of that video looked like training drills to get people used to impact.
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 4:19 PMHey, been doing Systema for a while, Norcal Systema, California Muscle Club, Sacramento. Those short, no hip, not much shoulder movement punches will drop you rolling in agony on the ground. No bullshit, no pressure points. Without exageration, I've seen several well-conditioned experienced guys drop and unable to breathe after taking those to the body.
Re lack of hip movement, etc.--I still remember my shock when doing punches to the body and was told "no, you are using your body too much, just drop the arm, don't use the body at all, don't sink, etc." My surprised look in response. Sergey (instructor), :"ok look"--we get on the ground face up side by side--he reaches over, and with no drive whatsoever, drops his fist on my chest. I was incapacitated and gasping for air. I'm in good condition--I can take several straight powershots to the solar plexus from good punchers.
I've never been hit by Vlad, but Sergey, who was a Sambo national champion, told me he has never been hit so hard by anybody in his life--effortless body strikes that dropped him instantly.
You should come by, everybody's got a good friendly attitude and they do full power body punching about every other practice. -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Fri, August 3, 2007 - 6:53 PMsounds similar to internal iron palm striking
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Sat, August 4, 2007 - 10:48 PMI'm sorry man i want to believe that these guys are delivering the whallop that your talking about but I just can't see the physics to support it. A good strike has 3 things involved
1/ Mass
2/Movement
3/structure
A lot of the strikes I saw only involve the weight of thier arm essentially which I guess on an average human being would be about 20lbs give or take, which is nothing compare to the mass you would have by imploying your body weight along with rotation. I'm sure there are people out there that can make it hurt a lot by just using the weight of thier arm but it's not going to have the mass behind it to break things in the man. Then there is close to zero structure at the end of the punch, both with thier limb and thier body, if you hit someone with your limbs bent your arm acts as a shock obsorber, meaning you take some of that force as well instead of him eating it all and then theres the fact that their body also does'nt have the structure to deal with that inevitable elastic collision, so you better hope with that punch that the guy weighs a lot less than you do.
P.S. I believe a system should be complete, i can't believe in one part of systema and then turn a blind eye to another, case in point thier ideas on dealing with weapons as shown on youtube where Vlad is using his cap to "rip' the gun away from his all so willing student.
While all the fancy movements may look impressive don't believe that they all have a place in violence -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Wed, August 8, 2007 - 1:25 AM"I just can't see the physics to support it. "
"internal" martial arts tend to remain "mysteeerious" for this exact reason: it's hard to see good mechanics most of the time. -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Wed, August 8, 2007 - 10:33 AMI'm not sure what you meant by internal martial arts and the mystery behind them, but I know what it takes to break a rib and there is no mystery behind that. you have to impart the largest lump of kenetic energy that you can get your hands on into his rib cage to bust it open. Our arms and legs are not able to generate the kenetic energy required to cause debilitating injury,without fail,every time.
The goal of any type of striking is to deliver the largest amount of kenetic energy possible into a target to wreck it, and for me fortunatly the largest amount of (kE) that I can lay my hands on is a 152lb bat which just happens to be my body weight.
My goal in a violent conflict is to wreck every target that I spend time on, I don't want to just make it hurt for the man because pain can be a tricky thing at times, I guess that kind of falls into the relm of pain compliance and joint locks. But with good old fashioned radiologist stamped injury there is no ambiguity. And I honestly can not get that type of injury by throwing my arms and legs around. -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Thu, August 9, 2007 - 2:10 AM"I'm not sure what you meant by internal martial arts and the mystery behind them,"
That's funny, 'cause I explained it immediately following the colon.
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Mon, August 6, 2007 - 12:42 AMI've never done systema - Does systema practice involve applying the techniques at full speed against a non-cooperative parter in every class? IMO a nessissity for effectiveness - see my posts in the choose your style thread -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Wed, August 8, 2007 - 1:18 AM"Does systema practice involve applying the techniques at full speed against a non-cooperative parter in every class?"
Depends on who's teaching. In my experience, mostly no.
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Sun, March 30, 2008 - 12:15 PMBill Let me start by saying hello IM james an OLD OLD student of yours from long ago. I too am a certified Hikuta instructor through Al and currently have my own kuta training business. Im right below you on his instructors site. I was also tossing around the idea os looking into Systema to see how it relates to Kuta an how Kuta could compliment it glad to hear your review of Systema. And your words regarding Kuta are right on it is Highly misunderstood by non practitioners. As Im sure Systems formless flowing moves are. HIkutas direct no BS direct preemptive approach is what makes it so contraversial and effective. Thanks for upholding the Kuta spirit and for sheding some light on it for the misinformed. James founder and head instructor at walk-without-fear.com
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Thu, August 9, 2007 - 4:25 AMwhat he is doing is striking acupuncture points with a penetrating fajing slap, when he hits one it causes an immediate reaction and "sets up" other points to cause various physiological effects. It is part of curriculum in the higher levels of Taichi and kungfu. It is definitely internal (almost unheard of outside Chinese styles).
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Sat, March 11, 2006 - 2:09 AMwww.russianmartialart.com/catal...rk.wmv
Looks more impressive than Wing Chun movement.
Reverse knife hand to the ribs, palm strike to the arm(?), reverse knife hand to the chin. Whip like movement. Did I miss anything?
When the bad guy was doing a front kick, the good guy sidesteps and reverse knife hand strike the bad guy’s chest. Am I correct? -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Sat, March 11, 2006 - 3:56 AM"Did I miss anything?"
Aside from framing the action in terms of other styles, the slo-mo at the end shows a fourth hit, on the arm again. Good catch on the whip-like movement, Vlad's big on that.
The thing to look for in that clip is how Vlad is working with and manipulating the other guy's tension, that's key in Systema work.
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Sat, March 11, 2006 - 5:17 AMThanks for all the responses.
Why did Vlad hit the bad guy's arm? Is it to prevent the bad guy from stricking him? Or to sense his intention? Or to disrupt his attention?
>Vlad is working with and manipulating the other guy's tension, that's key in Systema work. <
I don't understand what you mean, is it to strike the other guy's tense body parts, or to disrupt his balance, or change his attention point? You must tell me!
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Sat, March 11, 2006 - 10:55 PMI'm not trying to be contrary,but he's not effecting anything with that arm stuff.I totally opperate on the arms but he's not impacting and it's probably just a case of it being a set up and the other guy following a cue to fall.I agree that the lack of hip gyration reflects a loss of power. The hitter is too noodley.He is in the area of nerve points, but that's a big guy with layers of clothing on.I like his side step with a long-arm bridge hand but he's still not hitting through his target.I mean his footing isn't placed for power.It wouldn't move the heavy bag.If he pissed that guy off he'd be struck or siezed and if he really struck those nerve bundles on top of the fore arm and between the shoulder and trisep the arms would be week or useless.Okay it's just a doemo you say?but his hip and shoulder movement doesn't look informed.---Just my nickel's worth -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Sat, March 11, 2006 - 11:05 PMYeah, Greg, I also have the same impressions with what you said.
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Sun, March 12, 2006 - 4:26 AM"I'm not trying to be contrary"
Of course you are. If you weren't trying to be contrary, you wouldn't have put the word "but" after every single comma in your entire post. -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Mon, March 13, 2006 - 9:38 PMokay okay,I guess I should'a said I don't want to insult anyone...there are alot of 'buts' there. ---I just had returned to me however a video from France of a Chinese teacher doing simular moves.Alot of side stepping w/ long arm whips. He demos his technique of ankle and hip gyration and boy does he impact his fall-guy! -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 4:22 PMCrap, for some reason this posted up in the middle of the thread--repeating it down here:
Hey, been doing Systema for a while, Norcal Systema, California Muscle Club, Sacramento. Those short, no hip, not much shoulder movement punches will drop you rolling in agony on the ground. No bullshit, no pressure points. Without exageration, I've seen several well-conditioned experienced guys drop and unable to breathe after taking those to the body.
Re lack of hip movement, etc.--I still remember my shock when doing punches to the body and was told "no, you are using your body too much, just drop the arm, don't use the body at all, don't sink, etc." My surprised look in response. Sergey (instructor), :"ok look"--we get on the ground face up side by side--he reaches over, and with no drive whatsoever, drops his fist on my chest. I was incapacitated and gasping for air. I'm in good condition--I can take several straight powershots to the solar plexus from good punchers.
I've never been hit by Vlad, but Sergey, who was a Sambo national champion, told me he has never been hit so hard by anybody in his life--effortless body strikes that dropped him instantly.
You should come by, everybody's got a good friendly attitude and they do full power body punching about every other practice. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Systema, what is it like?
Tue, June 27, 2006 - 2:42 PMIf I had to compare Systema with another system, I'd say it more closely resembles Budo Taijutsu. Natural body movements and training in slow motion, but with devistating effeactiveness when done at speed.
I've studied Budo Taijutsu since 01' and was amazed at the similarity with Vlad's tapes. Occasionally there is somone teaching Systema in the grass mall at the U of AZ where we sometimes have our classes.
I worked out with them once and was very impressed with their flow. Went back to find them again and they had moved. Wish I could hook up with the instructor again and train occasionally.
PD -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Sun, August 5, 2007 - 8:48 PMFollow Up: I made contact with the instructor Yuri again around April 07. Have found that the natrual movement of Budo Tai Jutsu are not as natural as those of Systema, though I am still taking both. i try to go two times per week to each.
I haven't mastered the punches without hip or sholder movement, but can attest that they hurt. We have been doing a lot of knife work and avoidance of punches by moving out of the way in a what looks like a zombie walk. Very deceptive, in that it looks like the person is there, but as you punch toward them they rock out of the way.
I am in KY visiting relatives (8/1/07) and have had two classes with an old friend that teaches Hopkido. He "loans" me one of his students to work out with. We try our techniques on one another and he watches to see how he can improve his teaching. Have had two classes, the first against a Cho Dan in TKD and Hapkido and the second against a recently discharged Marine who had taken TKD and boxing before going into the Marines. This was his first class in Hapkido. Both were very tight and tried to muscle me when we "played". I can attest that being relaxed as in Systema realy works! We were doing knife work and grappeling escape. I can attest that remaining relaxed, as taught in Systema and Budo Tae Jutsu realy works! I probably used about the same of each. Plan on keeping up my Systema, may let BTJ go after my contract is up the first of the year.
PD
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Tue, July 31, 2007 - 7:05 PMHis movements seem pretty sound from a Shou Shu standpoint. There are many ways of developing power that are unconventional. There are many times when he is over center and changing direction while striking. He's swinging his centerline throught his target. Look at his free leg at times and notice sometimes he strikes while that foot is off the ground. Every pound that should be resting on that foot, ends up in his fist. As far as hip movement, listen to some of the instruction. Right as he is making contact, the body follows the strike. When you get proficient at this, it appears you don't really put much of your body into it. As far as I can see, and in my experience this guy seems to have the goods. I learned a long time ago not to discount what you don't understand, or what you think is not possible. Seek out the knowlwdge and you may find exactly what you've been looking for. If it don't pan out, you can bash it from first hand experience. That said...are there any SYSTEMA people in Monterey, CA? -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Wed, August 1, 2007 - 2:09 PMAre there any Systema guy's in NE Ohio? -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Thu, August 2, 2007 - 11:56 AMYou've got the biggest school close to you in Toronto. Wish I were that close. -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Fri, April 25, 2008 - 5:19 AM!!!Attention!!! All Interested parties
I wanted to let everyone know that if you are still interested in getting Kuta training the time has never been better. I have a few Level 1 DVD's left. Since our current duplication/printing service is no longer operating and we are forced to use another service, our price has increased substantially. So before we send for another run of the Level 1 DVD I want to get rid of all that we can from the previous run. So I reduced the price to get rid of the last few remaining DVD's but I only have a limited supply. The price will return to it's original once these on hand are gone (at the rate there going that wont be long). I have a few left for interested parties, Just follow the link to get them while they last. www.walk-without-fear.com
James
Master Instructor and founder
Walk-Without-Fear.com -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Fri, April 25, 2008 - 9:00 AMHi there Spammer!
It looks like "Hikuta"s main skill is shoddy marketing and spamming every conversation in sight.
From your letter it looks like you've got a butt-load of DVDs that you can't sell. -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 6:39 PMLMAO..... There is always one in every crowd looks like your IT. Poor uninformed little boy who goes around to every tribe spewing false information on something that he knows nothing of. As for the selling of my DVD Well you could only wish to sell like they do. But of course you know all about that also just like you do of DOK Lee. LOL HA HA what a poor pathetic littel boy you are to come her eand talk trash about a man you don't even know or have not trained with. PPSSSSSTTT It's past your bed time. -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 8:06 AMLet's see....
Is this thread about The Ancient Fictitious Art of the Egyptian Warriors?
No.
Is it about that dead old alcoholic fraud "Defender of Kings" Lee?
No. And I can't offhand think of a single king he defended.
Is Systema Hikuta?
No.
So why are you jumping into this discussion with your bullhorn and snake oil?
I'd guess it's because your crap really is weak and nobody wants to buy it. You've got a ton of overpriced DVDs that won't move, and you're trying to dump them. -
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Re: Systema, what is it like?
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 4:10 PMLOL HA HA HO HO HE HE LMAO >>>>>>>> I love those little bouys that come on her trying to talk intelligent. For those that know the real deal know that Todd was the first to slander and talk down on others with his initial comment about DOK Lee being home grown fraud However somehow in his mind it its others that first spoke. I would challenge anyone anwhere to show me wher I made a slanderous comment to Todd prior to his reference to DOK Lee? If anyone can show me where I spoke down or belittled Todd before his DOK Lee comment please step forward?..........................................................Well Todd looks like your spinning you wheels for nothing. You obviously are delusional about who said what about who first and who was snotty. I will no onger waist time on your ilde rantings and idiot babble. When you learn what your talking about then come back.
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